AC: I read an interview in which you said that the gym is your temple and that if you weren't a health and fitness guru, you'd be a religious fanatic. What exactly did you mean by that?

JL: Well, being French, I started out in life as a Catholic and when I was two months old I was baptized a Catholic. But my mother got into Seventh Day Adventism because being a Catholic wasn't satisfying her. She was a very controlling person and she had my life all mapped out for me. She wanted me to become a medical doctor and go to Africa as someone representing the Church and saving people's lives and all, so it broke her heart when I went into my profession. But I said, "Mom, we have enough problems here in the United States without going to Africa. We've got plenty of people to save right here."

AC: It certainly seems—in more ways than one—that for countless thousands you have fulfilled the role that spiritual masters or gurus do in the East, and I think the most impressive thing about you is your willingness to be an example for others. So what I'd like to ask you is this: Are you a guru? And why do you feel that living, breathing role models are so essential on the paths of self-mastery and liberation?

JL: Actually, I never think of myself as a guru—especially getting the home training that I did, what with my mother always talking about being humble, appreciating what you've got and always pushing yourself down. So I've always had this feeling of inferiority, and of never thinking of myself as a guru. In fact, I never even think of what I've done. You know, everybody says, "Oh, you did this, you did that," and I say, "Yeah, like the guy who had a million dollars a year ago and today he's broke. What has he got?" You see, I never look back; I only think about today and tomorrow, about my work and how I can help these people. But how could I be an example, and how could you believe in Jack LaLanne, if I didn't practice what I preach? So here I am, eighty-four years old, and man, my lectures are getting better all the time, stand-up crowds and standing ovations—it's just incredible how I'm getting to people. I get them crying, I get them laughing, I get into their guts; and believe me, you have to be in shape to do that. That takes energy! And when I go out in public, I take time with the people; I sign autographs, I talk to them, I counsel them, I motivate them. Because that's why I've been put on this earth, to help these people. And people need help.

When I opened my first official health club in 1936, I'd go to Oakland High School at noontime. I'd pick out the fattest kid I could find, and I'd get his phone number and his address and his name, and I'd pick out the skinniest kid I could find, and get his phone number, his address and his name. I'd go to fifty kids' homes, and I'd sign up fifty out of fifty—I never missed. I'd tell their parents, "I'm going to save this kid's life, he's going to have the greatest life anybody can have, and if he doesn't sign up, he's going to miss out on it." Then I'd tell those kids, "If you wear clean clothes, you're not going to be a follower, you're going to be a leader. I want you to cut your hair, I want those clothes to be neat and clean, and if you get lower than a C grade in school, you're OUT." Come to think of it, I was their guru—I was their mother, their father, their best friend, their everything. I knew about their sex life, about how much money they spent, their aches and pains and all their problems. They came to me, I was their consultant, and we were family. And I worked those kids, I'll tell you you wouldn't believe it. It's a wonder some of them didn't die!

So that's how I get my reward. Can you put a price on a life? If you can save somebody's life, get that person to reduce their weight or get these older people working out, well, look what you've done—you've saved a life, the most precious thing there is!

AC: What is the source of your compassion for other people and your interest in their welfare?

JL: It's because, as I told you, I was sick as a kid for fifteen years. I was a raving psychotic maniac, aches and pains, the kids making fun of me at school and my brother beating me up all the time—it was just incredible! So I have compassion for those people who are sick. They need help!

AC: But there are other people who have been through hard times and gotten themselves together but who don't seem to care the way you do. So what I'm asking you is: Where does this caring come from? What is the source of it?

JL: Number one, my mother with her religious training. She always taught me about humility and caring for people. That's what she pounded into my head, so that's probably where it comes from. There's no doubt about it. Your home training has to mean so much, right? So that's an example of it.

AC: But Jack, you seem like you really care. This just doesn't seem like something you learned.

JL: I care more than . . . you cannot believe how much I care!

AC: Yes, but my point is that that couldn't just come from something that you were taught. It seems like it's coming from inside you, from your heart.

JL: Well it does, absolutely—where else do you think it comes from? It comes from these seventy trillion cells in my body, and it's wrapped up in Jack LaLanne's profession. I want to help somebody! Jesus, when he was on the earth, he was out there helping people, right? Why did he perform those miracles? To call attention to his profession. Why do you think I do these feats on my birthdays, these incredible things that I do? To call attention to my profession! When I first started out I was considered a crackpot. The doctors used to say, "Don't go to that Jack LaLanne, you'll get hemorrhoids, you won't get an erection, you women will look like men, you athletes will get muscle-bound"—this is what I had to go through. So I had to get people believing in me. "What does this Jack LaLanne have that I want?" I had to prove it. So I put handcuffs on and swam from Alcatraz, which is supposed to be escape-proof. Well, that called attention to my profession. "Gee, the guy is not a bunch of bull after all"—you know—and the athletes, they said, "Well, if he can swim like that, and if he won the Mr. America contest and all this stuff, he's got to have something going." Now I'm not comparing myself to Jesus, but I'm just telling you what I had to do to call attention to my profession.

AC: There's something that comes out of you, though, a kind of passion that does seem to me to be very similar, or almost identical to, a spiritual or religious passion.

JL: Well it is. It is a religion with me. It's a way of life. A religion is a way of life, isn't it? As I told you, I believe in a Supreme Being. I believe in this power that's been given to me, and I'm using it. We all have it, but we don't bring it out. And that's why I said my profession should be taught from the pulpit. Some of these poor people who are sick and tired and miserable and thinking of suicide, they think the only thing to do is to say a couple of prayers. You've got to get to these people and say, "Look, you can do it, but it's got to come from you. God's going to give you the power, but you have to take responsibility."

AC: God helps those who help themselves?

JL: Absolutely.

AC: All right, but how does He help those who help themselves?

JL: He helps them to do what they want to do—to eat better, to exercise, to think better, to have more pride and more discipline, to be more compassionate toward other people and not lie to themselves or to anybody else. These are all things that are there for us. But it's just like food on the table; if you don't go there and eat it, what good is it? What good is the spiritual aspect of life if people don't put it into their daily lives? What good are all these wonderful tools that we have if we don't use them?

AC: From everything you're saying, it sounds like you're sure that what you're teaching and the way you're living is what God wants. Would that be fair to say?

JL: It must be, because God is sure taking care of me. Think about it. He must be smiling on me, because I haven't had any heart attacks, I don't have any cancer, I don't have anything. I'm obeying all the rules, the laws of nature—eating right, thinking right and exercising. What else is there?

AC: Well, often, when you're speaking about diet and nutrition, you also speak about integrity and honesty—

JL: They go hand in hand; it's all a part of it.

AC: Obviously we live in a world where a lot of people don't have integrity and don't live honestly in the way that you're speaking about, but the way you talk about honesty and integrity, it almost sounds as if these also are natural laws that must be obeyed.

JL: That's exactly how I feel—I'm that passionate about it! You see, there are certain things that have been handed down for thousands of years, certain axioms that were true then and are true now. Like two plus two is four—it'll never be six and a half and it'll never be nine, right? Well, there are truths that go along with my profession and they're axioms—you've got to do these things. How you treat people and how you act are so important, because the most important person in the world is you. Think about it. A lot of people complain, "Oh, my husband, and my this and my that, and my kids. . . . " But what good are those kids, what good is your husband, if you're no good, if you're all fouled up mentally, physically, and you're sick all the time and you're not doing the things you're supposed to do? If you're not an example, then you're not motivating anybody. In fact, you're really making a lot of people suffer by not taking care of the most important person in the world. Now it's hard for me to talk like this because my mother always said to be humble—but it's the truth. I'm not doing all this stuff so you'll say, "Gee, Jack, you're a wonderful guy"; it's because I've got to do the best I possibly can and set my standards high so that the people who come to my lectures will follow them. That's my responsibility, because I know that in all these billions of years of existence, there's just one of you and one of me. Doesn't that mean anything? So if you can't afford half an hour three or four times a week to take care of the most priceless possession on this earth, which is your body, then you've got to be a bit psycho.

Now a lot of people say, "Oh, I don't have the time." Or, "Oh, but I don't like it, Jack." But you know, I try to get to the gym by five in the morning, and I work out for two hours. To leave a hot bed and a hot woman to go to a cold gym—now that's dedication! And I've never heard this once—knock, knock, knock on the window in my gym: "Jack, this is Jesus, I'll work out for you today!" So that's the message we have to give all these people—that "we are fearfully and wonderfully made"—and we goof it up. If you're tired and pooped out all the time, do you have love and compassion in your heart for your fellow man? You don't even like yourself!

You know, that's the only thing that I get really sad about. I see a sea of millions of people going down with their own negative thoughts, going down for the third time in this big sea of iniquity and negativity, and I feel like I've got the life preserver, but all I can do is say, "Grab it!"

AC: The joy that you express, on the other hand, seems very akin to what is sometimes described as spiritual ecstasy.

JL: Yes, well, that's what it is. When you eat right and you exercise and do all these things, you experience wonderful things, and you're a happier person.

AC: Again, though, I've met other people who eat right and exercise right, but they don't express the joy, the confidence and the spirit that you do.

JL: That's because they don't believe that there is something that put all this together. They don't realize that there is a Supreme Being—something that's in us and all around us that will accomplish all things. But we've got to believe that.

AC: Are you saying now that that's the most important thing—this knowledge of, and confidence in, the presence and action of the Supreme Being?

JL: Well sure it is—what do you think put us here? But you can't go around all the time just thinking that, you've got to take responsibility for you, for what you do. These other things are just kind of subliminal, they're around you and in you and—

AC: Intuitive?

JL: Right. And some people have it and some don't. And the ones that don't can have it if they work at it, but how many people do that?

AC: So in terms of this distinction between self-mastery and enlightenment, in your view are they the same or are they different?

JL: They're interwoven. You can't separate spirituality and self-mastery. Without spirituality you can't have self-mastery, because self-mastery is being able to control your emotions and control your life, and without this Supreme Being—this "God" or whatever you want to call it—without that power, you couldn't do it. You see, I'm using the power that this Supreme Being has given me to help me control Jack LaLanne; otherwise I'd be an animal. We are the chosen ones on this earth, we humans. We're a step higher. You know, it's just amazing what we have; we only scratch the surface of what we've got, but where is the limit? There is no limit. But this power, if you think about it, can also be used negatively—it can bring about wars and other terrible things. So is this power that we have for good or for bad? It all comes down to the choices that we make.

AC: What are the qualities of a human being who's achieved self-mastery?

JL: They're going to be kinder, more generous, more fun to be around, more productive, and they're going to be better parents, better husbands, better lovers, better citizens—everything about them is going to be better. Why? Because they've got control! If I've got control, I'm not going to lie to people, I'm not going to murder people and I'm not going to cheat them; I'm going to be a good human being, and if somebody needs help I'm going to help them.

AC: So self-control is the key to liberation, to freedom.

JL: Right. You see, as I said, it's a whole thing, a perfect circle; without one you can't have the other.

AC: In your book you write about the role of prayer and meditation. Could you speak a little bit about that?

JL: Well, the Supreme Being that's put us on this earth and that controls everything, I give my thanks to this Supreme Being.

AC: So you mean prayer and meditation as an expression of gratitude?

JL: Yes, absolutely—and we should be grateful! I express my gratitude all during the day; without even thinking, I just do it. When I'm driving my car, I say, "Gee, you've got a new Corvette, Jack, and how lucky you are to be living here in this wonderful country, and boy, you've got these lectures, you're going to reach thousands of people, and think of what a great wife you have"—these things are just in my brain. In other words, I try to keep all the negative stuff out of my brain, because negativity is like a poison; it develops an acid condition in your body, and some of these people who go to see psychiatrists are caught in that negative net.

It's tough to do, but you've got to work at living, you know? Most people work at dying, but anybody can die; the easiest thing on this earth is to die. But to live takes guts; it takes energy, vitality; it takes thought, and you've got to have this pride, this discipline that we've been talking about. We have so many negative influences out there that are pulling us down. Thinking about the wars all over the world and the starving people and all this stuff just gets in your brain—and you've got to be strong to overcome these adversities. That's why you've got to plow ahead; that's why I never stop. Negativity is what kills you. Thoughts are things, thoughts are things!

AC: You mentioned that some people who see psychiatrists are caught up in a "net of negativity." Do you mean to say that dwelling on our problems, trying to work them out, is a waste of time?

JL: If you've got a problem, you may have to work at it, but you should conquer it. Most of your problems you can control, and so many of them are self-inflicted—people moaning about things they don't have instead of just getting them. As I keep saying, you've got to work at life. It's a pain in the backside, but it's just something you've got to do, and solving these problems is often just a matter of exchanging a few bad habits for a few good ones.

AC: If you were to fall ill, would your indomitable spirit and positivity be shaken by it in any way?

JL: Absolutely no, it wouldn't. I would do more! I would say, "Jack, you've broken nature's law somewhere." I'd take responsibility. I made it happen. God didn't do it, the devil didn't do it, you didn't do it—I did it! I did something wrong.

AC: I've read that your first interest has always been people, and that even though you're not a poor man, you could have been a lot richer if you were interested in money.

JL: I make money—more than I'll ever use, as much as I want—but I will not sacrifice my integrity! It's got to be what I believe in and what it's going to do for the people. It would just kill me to do something I knew was going to be wrong, you know? I'm hard on myself, I'm my own taskmaster. Even my wife says, "Oh, eat this, come on, Jack, nobody's going to know." I can't do it—nuts! But it pleases me. As I said, the most important person on this earth is me. After all, if I'm no good, how am I going to be a good husband, or a good father, or whatever? You are you and I am me, and I have to live with my conscience. So it's really simple: Just don't screw up.

AC: That is all it takes, but it seems to be quite a big thing, what you've just said—"It's really simple: Just don't screw up."

JL: Yeah, well, a lot goes on. You've got to keep having challenges. . . . Life's just great, isn't it? Isn't life just great?

AC: Is there anything you're still striving to achieve?

JL: I feel like I haven't done anything yet! I really do! I've got so much stuff inside me you can't believe it. I want to get to more people. In fact, I'm thinking of going back on television again. Do you know how potent I would be on television right now, at my age? Being able to do all the things I can do?

AC: Oh, unbelievable, unimaginable.

JL: Well, you see, this is exactly what I've got in my mind! Going back on again, five days a week—and do you know what the people want? They want me to do exactly what I did before. You probably don't remember my television show.

AC: Of course I do!

JL: When I first started that show I didn't know the first thing about television. But every day I'd give an inspirational talk—that anything in life is possible and it's never too late, right? Then there'd be a one-minute nutritional tip, and a little bit about what we were going to do the next day. And everything I did was for that person there at home. I had only one thing in my mind: "How can I make them healthier and happier? How can I make them better people?" And if there was one thing I knew, it was that I had to be the example. Otherwise it could never happen.