interview

Andrew Cohen:The topic of this issue is the relationship between self-mastery and enlightenment, and you are the person we wanted to speak to about self-mastery.

Jack LaLanne: It's the key to everything.

AC: So my first question for you is: What is self-mastery?

JL: Self-mastery is controlling one's thoughts, controlling one's emotions and controlling as much of your life as you possibly can. But one will never, ever have complete self-mastery, for that's the human nature. And that's why everything comes down to believing—you have to believe. My whole thing is believing. I believe so strong. If something saved your life, would you believe in it?

AC: Yes, I would.

JL: Well, my life was saved by my profession. I was a weak, sick kid. When I was thirteen years old, I developed this terrific habit of eating sugar—my whole life was sugar, sugar, sugar. It destroyed all the B vitamins and affected my brain. I had this uncontrollable temper—tried to kill my brother on two occasions, failing grades in school, troublemaker in school—and then when I was about fifteen, the authorities had the doctors take me out of school for six months. I was about thirty pounds underweight and, like I said, I had failing grades and everything was going wrong with me. So there I was, a shut-in at home. One of our neighbors told my mother that there was a lecturer speaking at the Oakland Women's City Club, and this man was a nutritionist who had done wonderful things for people. So my mother—she was a pretty good salesgal—talked me into going. In those days I was wearing glasses, I was skinny, I had pimples and boils, and I was so bashful I didn't want anybody to see me. But I went to this lecture.

Well, we were a little late getting there and there were no seats available so we started to leave, and the lecturer—he was up there lecturing—he said, "Lady with the boy, we don't turn anybody away! Ushers, bring two seats and put them up on the stage!" They put two folding chairs up on the stage and there my mother and I sat in front of all those hundreds of people. It was the most humiliating moment of my life. I'm perspiring, my little heart's beating, and I just knew all those people were looking at me—little did I know then that they all had problems of their own. Well, that guy was so forceful! "My dear friends," he said, "it matters not what your present physical condition is, it matters not what your age is, if you obey nature's laws you can be born again!" Well, I forgot everything! This man said I could be born again! That's what I wanted! I wanted to be an athlete, I wanted the girls to like me and I wanted to be able to get good grades in school, and this man said I could do all that. Now what did he mean by nature's laws? Exercise and eating properly! I went home that night and I said, "Dear God or somebody, I need help." I didn't say, "Make me a Mr. America, make me a straight-A student." I said, "Just give me the willpower to refrain from these foods that are killing me, all this sugar, sugar, sugar, all this processed food." That night, I went strict vegetarian. Then a few days later I joined the Berkeley YMCA. And you know what? In one week's time, I was born again. Absolutely! I used to have these blinding headaches, I used to pound my head against the wall because I couldn't stand the pain, and my energy was so down and everything was negative—I hated my brother, and my mother, and my dad, and other kids—and in one week that all changed. My folks couldn't believe it! I was actually born again! Now if something saved your life, would you be enthusiastic about it?

AC: Yes, sir.

JL: Well that's exactly it. See, if you get all these things together, you get the spiritual, you get the physical . . . I mean, there is so much that we don't know about life, but there is so much that we do know. And if we put into practice what we know about the spiritual and about the physical, then we've got a great life, and this is what I try to get over to people—that anything in life is possible.

AC: So what would you say would be a concise definition of "self-mastery," then?

JL: Being able to do the things that you believe in your heart you should do. Like being truthful. Being truthful to yourself. If I would ever lie to me, I'd lie to you. And if I were to lie to you . . . I mean, the only thing that Jack LaLanne has got going for him is telling the truth. I've got nothing else going for me; that's it, that's the whole thing. You see, I would never miss a workout, and I would never eat anything that I don't believe in. I'd be cheating! That's self-mastery; that's control, that's discipline, that's pride. And that's what we need more than anything else—pride and discipline.

AC: And based on your understanding, what is God-realization or enlightenment?

JL: You're speaking about God? Well, especially being in my profession, if you don't believe there is a Supreme Being, you've got to be psycho—you'd have to be sick! Do you think that man could ever make a calculator like your brain? Do you think that man could ever make a pumping system like your heart? Do you think that man could ever make a filtering system like your kidneys? Do you think that man could ever make a machine that the only way to hurt it is by not using it? I've just bought a new Corvette. Now that car, the more I drive it, the quicker it wears out, right? But how about this God-given machine? The only way you hurt it is not to use it. See, when I got enlightenment about all these things I was a young kid about twelve years old. I was in San Francisco, in Golden Gate Park, and we had an old Model-T Ford and I had to get out and crank it, and when it kicked it broke my arm. I had a cast for two months, and when I took that arm out of the cast, do you know what it was? A bone! I cried. I couldn't believe it. Was that old age? No—inactivity! You see, you don't get old from age, you get old from inactivity, from not believing in something. So that's what I've said a million times—and you've got to believe it—man could have never put together what we have, this human machine.

AC: What do you think the difference is between what you're teaching—which is absolutely positive and obviously has the power to completely revolutionize one's life—and what it is that someone is describing when they say they've had a powerful spiritual experience?

JL: I have a spiritual experience all the time! When I wake up in the morning, man, I'm telling you—I have hands, I have feet, and I praise that omnipotent power that gave them to me, whatever it is. We don't know what it is, but we've got to know that there is some power that's beyond our comprehension. But as I said, what I take into consideration, and what I try to practice, is what we do know—what we know, and what is positive. You know, I was just recently on Dr. Robert Schuller's show—I've got to help him, by the way, he's in bad shape; I've got to call him tonight and put him on a good program, nutrition, exercise . . . anyway, when I was on his show a few weeks ago, I realized that this is where my profession should be taught—from the pulpit! Catholics, Jews, Muslims, all of them, so much of religion now, what is it? These poor people, they overeat, they overdrink, they don't exercise, they don't take vitamins, they're fat and they're out of shape and they're miserable and they've got arthritis and rheumatism, and then they go to church and they say, "Dear God, please help me." Well, God's not going to do anything for you; God helps those who help themselves! Everything that's ever happened in Jack LaLanne's life—good or bad—I made it happen. So that's what you've got to tell those people: "You've got to take responsibility for your actions." As I said, you cannot completely control your thoughts, but you can still take responsibility for yourself and guide yourself in a good, positive way.

AC: What is your feeling, though, about the famous declaration of the enlightened person who says, "Thy will be done"—in other words, "It's not my will but the will of a higher power that does everything"?

JL: Well, I don't believe that. I believe we are put on this earth to do the best we possibly can with what we have. Again, there are so many things we don't know about—but if I left everything to fate, I wouldn't have anything! I wouldn't be getting to people. I've got to make it happen! And I believe this with my mind and my heart and my soul: What can't you do? Anything in life is possible if you make it happen.

AC: When you apply yourself in the way that you're describing and you discover this tremendous energy, do you ever have moments or experiences when you feel that there's also a power at work that is greater than yourself?

JL: Yes, but this power is in me. I'm using it. It's in you, too. And it's for you and me to bring it out.

AC: But in your book Revitalize Your Life After Fifty, you say, as you also did just a minute ago: "You cannot be in my profession of physical fitness (connected with the mind and the body) and not believe that there is a Supreme Being that keeps this universe together." What does that mean in practical terms?

JL: Well, when we look at the sun and the stars all around us here, our minds can't comprehend it—we just can't comprehend this. But I'm a great believer that if there is an earth made over, if there's a life again, then if I do everything negative in this life—if I break all of nature's laws and lie and hurt people—I'll never get another chance. But if I do a good job—if I do everything good in this life and I help myself and I help my family and I believe in everything I'm doing—then if there is another world made over, I'll be there, because I've earned it. Everything you do in life, you earn it, earn it, earn it—good or bad. How do you think you get arthritis, or rheumatism, or mental illness or all these different heart diseases? People earn them by breaking nature's laws. Would you put water in the gas tank of your automobile? Well, your body is a combustion engine, and thoughts are things!—they affect it, too.

AC: When I was thinking a lot about self-mastery, the simplest way I could think of to define it would be to say that it is the liberation of the "I Can" in the human spirit, because it liberates the individual from all kinds of limiting beliefs and directly reveals to them that, as you say, miracles are possible if we are only willing to act—

JL: Look, miracles—you think all the miracles were in the biblical days? Do you know what we're doing now with people? Why do you think there are more people who are reaching a hundred years old than ever before in our history? We're getting these old people out of their rocking chairs, out of bed, eating right, exercising and believing in something. Even if you are ninety-five years old, you can double your strength and double your endurance in six to eight weeks—at ninety-five! This is actually the truth! Now if I can double your strength and double your endurance, wouldn't that be a miracle to you? If you are a big fat person and you lose eight or fifteen or twenty inches off your waist and you get more energy than you've had since you were a kid—that's a miracle. But the point is, we make our miracles happen.

AC: Have you ever heard it said that in the spiritual realization there is a recognition of "I Am"?

JL: Yes, I've heard that.

AC: Well, some of the great spiritual masters who have experienced this realization say that in the recognition of this "I Am," the individual experiences pure being—pure being in which there is no doing, there is only being. They realize that they are not separate from everything that exists.

JL: I do that all the time! Like I told you, I thank God—or something—that I'm here! I'm appreciative of this.

AC: Of being?

JL: Of being! Right. Absolutely. But I made that happen because I took control!

AC: Good, so what I want to ask you is this: Some spiritual masters refer to this experience of being, and this experience of resting in being, as "enlightenment." And what they believe is that while on the path of self-mastery we strive to become, on the path to enlightenment we must endeavor to come to the end of becoming. In order to directly know oneness with all things, it is absolutely essential, they say, that we come to the end of becoming. This is, for example, what the Buddha spoke about. The Self Masters, on the other hand, tell us that in order to be able to realize and express our full potential as human beings, we must strive ceaselessly for greatness. So what I want to ask you is: Who has the right perspective here?

JL: These are just words. All these religious people—why are there so many sick ones? Because they are not fulfilling what they have, they're not working at it! They want something for nothing. They're just like most Americans these days—they want to overeat, overdrink, smoke and not exercise, and then they go to the doctor saying, "Give me a magic shot, doctor, so I can feel better and look better." They all want that, but as I said, there is a price to pay. Living is tough, it's hard, and most people, especially religious people, spend too much time on their spirituality, hoping that this spiritual thing is going to do something for them. It doesn't work that way! They've forgotten all about honesty and integrity and really getting down to the nitty-gritty.

AC: So what you're saying is that to become truly spiritual, to experience genuine spirituality, you have to really act—you have to do something—and you have to be willing to give everything.

JL: Everything! Absolutely, no doubt about it; there are no free lunches. The whole plan about this is that you have the power to do it, but you have to take responsibility. I'm a normal human being, but the reason I'm normal is because I've worked at it! Like I said, there's a mental side to all this and you can't separate it from the physical. Too many people dwell on all kinds of things, but I work out seven days a week and that's my penance, that's my price to pay, that's to keep my mind down to where it should be instead of it running away. See, it's a psychological thing. You're actually punishing yourself, disciplining yourself—it all comes down to discipline. With my personality, I could be a runaway, out with a different woman every night, drunk every night, eating and doing things that—well, you know, you've got it in you, we've all got it in us. But that's why you've got to take control! So after I've done my workout in the morning, I've fulfilled my obligation, my price to pay for what I have. Nothing happens accidentally; there's always a reason, somewhere along the line.

AC: What about grace?

JL: What about what?

AC: Grace—the descent of the spirit. It's called "grace" when it seems that for no apparent reason the spirit visits someone—then they say it was an "act of grace."

JL: You see, that I can't get into, because that's never happened to me. Everything that's happened to me in my life is because of something that I've done to make it happen. Nobody's come out of the clouds. But your mind can play so many tricks on you. If you think something is going to happen—you know, don't dismiss the mind; it controls everything, right?—you can make yourself well or sick. There is so much that we don't know, and I don't think this Supreme Being that we've been talking about really wanted us to know everything. If we knew everything we wouldn't be inquisitive any more. That's why people who think they know everything lose their imagination. You need to get new thoughts, new challenges. It's like He's keeping that carrot—pardon the old saying—in front of the horse to keep it going.