The Self-System

Wilber: Let me bring in another part of AQAL [all quadrants, all levels] theory, which I think has fallen between the cracks here. I always say that there are at least five elements to AQAL: quadrants, levels, lines, states, and types. But there’s a sixth one that is actually, when it comes to the psychology of development, number one in importance. And that’s what we just call the self. In first-person terms it’s called the self, and in third-person terms, analyzing it objectively, we call it the “self-system.”

The self has several characteristics. It’s the seat of will and intention and integrity, and it’s responsible for integrating whatever quadrants, levels, lines, states, and types are present. The self has its own structure, its own pattern, its own characteristics. It’s a source of identity. It’s the source of will. It’s the source of defense—in a healthy sense, like an immune system. It’s the source of what we call navigation—how you actually navigate anything that’s presented to you in the currents of life. And because of that, I think what you’re talking about is a turnaround in the very self, in its own structure, in its pattern and its capacity for integrity.

Cohen: Yes, exactly.

Wilber: And then it seems that what’s happening is that you’ve got this nondual plateau state plus this turnaround in the self and its whole orientation to development, and then I would even combine that with the superholon and put all of it in an AQAL framework—and that’s the explanation I’d give for what you’re finding.

Cohen: Sounds like a pretty good explanation!

Wilber: That’s not necessarily a particular stage—but it might be necessary for the self to reach a particular level or stage of development before it can do what you’re describing.

Cohen: That’s right. It’s a posture in relationship to development itself, but I would say that the self would have to reach at least what Spiral Dynamics would call a second-tier cognitive capacity—

Wilber: Yes. So that’s where you start: the teal or turquoise stages in my model. But being at second tier is still not enough to do what you’re doing, to have the actual turnaround in the self structure, in the self’s orientation.

Cohen: That’s for sure! Indeed, I have found in the twenty years I’ve been doing this that it’s much easier for people to have horizontal state experiences and also to understand at a cognitive level the differences between vertical stages than it is to attain this deep level of integrity in the self. But in terms of this larger structure I was talking about, I think that kind of integrity is what ultimately is going to empower it more than anything else. When individuals are living with this level of what we might call “soul integrity” and holding the evolutionary passion and perspective of the authentic self, then something extraordinary begins to happen that informs all who are participating. It’s like the unmanifest potential of the near future begins to appear in awareness as unbearably imminent and even in brief moments seems to actually become manifest. As you said in one of our previous dialogues, the authentic self is a state that can be experienced at different stages, but when the development of the self line reaches the leading edge, the indigo or violet stage in your model, it’s also the laying down, or sedimentation, of the leading edge as a stage.

Precursors of the Authentic Self

Wilber: What do you think is the most important factor in activating, if you will, the authentic self—in an individual or in the superholon?

Cohen: Well, for people who are already on the train, it’s already moving! So all it really takes is coming together in a context of intention, trust, and commitment, and then it just spontaneously emerges. It’s amazing the way it happens. But the depth and stability of this emergence, as we have been saying, depend upon the level of integrity, authenticity, and transparency that any individual in the collective is holding. In this context, an enormous degree of what I call “evolutionary tension” is generated, which implicitly demands that the ego step aside. When it does, layers and layers of pretense and inauthenticity fall away from the self, and the intersubjective field is experienced as that nondual ground where heaven and earth, self and other, become indistinguishable.

Wilber: Right. And obviously, the deeper the authenticity in the people engaged, the greater the chance this nondual plateau state will be activated in the superholon.

Cohen: That’s right. And then the superholon literally becomes the field in and through which this impersonal, dramatic surge happens. And when it does, the ego either recedes into the background or temporarily disappears altogether. The normal boundaries of the false self fall away in an experience of profound communion, and miraculously, a new kind of autonomy that is inherent in our own higher development is released. People are having the most unbelievable experiences—but even that is not really the point. I literally feel like all of this is just building a foundation for whatever is going to come from it. Whatever it is I’m describing, it is definitely not for the individuals involved. It’s not for their own development, even though that, of course, is happening. It’s for something much bigger. And all I know is that that “something much bigger” will never be able to happen until the structure is stable.

Wilber: You must be so excited just to have this actually starting to stick.

Cohen: It’s the first time in many years that a significant number of my students are really beginning to get it. Even though they’ve had all kinds of experiences before, this seems to be the first time that they are really beginning to get on a deeper level what I’ve been seeing in the eye of my intuition for a long time.

Wilber: So that allows all of their previous experiences and understanding to actually be sort of reformulated, refelt in a way that’s sticking almost retroactively.

Cohen: Yes, retroactively, exactly. What I have found is that experiences of the authentic self always do have a developmental impact. But for that impact to show up, the individual has to relinquish his or her identification with ego to a dramatic degree—in order for self-confidence, maturity, soul strength, spiritual power, and enlightenment to emerge. Those kinds of impressions on the soul or on the self are always permanent, but as long as the individual isn’t willing to drop the ego, they just won’t appear to be there.

Wilber: You said that an individual needs to be at second tier to have the authentic self fully engaged in a correct way, to really kick in. But what do you think are the precursors of the authentic self, the little nibblets of it showing up in childhood and getting bigger in adolescence and then flowering at second tier? I’m really curious. The developmental psychologist in me is just wondering what that line of development is. Do you know what I mean? My thoughts on this are that it’s really the soul. And the soul is nascent in its early stages during childhood and starts to blossom later on. Anybody has a capacity for and access to the soul, but the soul is not itself developmental. It gets fuller, it gets freer, it gets wider—so that might be part of it. But I’m curious what you think about the precursors for the authentic self? Have you thought about that aspect of it? It’s an interesting thought.

Cohen: You know, I never have thought about it in quite that way. In my model, the soul and the authentic self are not always necessarily the same thing, but there is definitely a relationship between the two.

Wilber: Let me frame this another way: The component that is necessary for the authentic self to kick in is, without question, at least a second-tier teal or turquoise cognition. But there are other components to the self, and there are other precursors. One thing that’s obviously important is not just that cognitive component but the real capacity for integrity.

Cohen: Yes. That’s definitely true.

Wilber: And you can have integrity at earlier levels of development as appropriate to those levels. You can have integrity at amber or at orange, and earlier as well. So if you have, in the self’s development, going back to childhood, those conditions that help the self become integral at those earlier stages, then by the time it hits second tier, it’s going to be more likely to be able to awaken as the authentic self. Do you see what I mean?

Cohen: That makes perfect sense.

Wilber: So that’s what I’m getting at. The point is that we can help people at earlier stages be prepared for this by helping those precursors to be in place—

Cohen: And of course one of the obstacles to the kind of integrity we’re speaking about is the fact that more often than not, we’re really screwed up!

Wilber: That’s right.

Cohen: There are all kinds of shadow issues that the individual hasn’t dealt with and doesn’t want to deal with for whatever reason, which will put them in a position of not being able to have, or refusing to make the effort to cultivate, the kind of integrity we’re speaking about.

Wilber: Yes, that’s what happens, and that’s going to really stop a person. That kind of fragmentation is not going to allow the full authentic self to emerge at second tier. But if the person does have a fair amount of integrity and a reasonable lack of mental pathology, they’ll be much more likely to be able to bolt right into second tier in the right circumstances.

Cohen: I think that’s spot-on. This is why I put so much emphasis on the cultivation of integrity in my teaching and why I set up kind of moral, ethical challenges for people.

Wilber: I think it’s great to think about these precursors, because it does allow us to think about education—an education for the authentic self! In other words, to find out what will be the healthy precursors that will grease the skids into the authentic self.

Cohen: Without a doubt, it’s absolutely essential. To create the future, I’m convinced we have to learn how to meet beyond ego in a developmental context, and I believe the awakening of the authentic self is the vehicle through which we will be able to do that. So I find what you said about educating the self very helpful. It makes a lot of sense.

Wilber: Well, this is so encouraging that these several factors are coming together: a plateau state experience, a superholon starting to form, a significant number of individuals actually getting it and ratcheting up, really stepping up to be responsible, so that the authentic self is allowed to truly resonate—and all this is an evolutionary unfolding. And you can also review and judge, in a sense, your life and life processes and your own structures and states from this nondual plateau. That combination allows a sort of nondual understanding, and that becomes the subject of which these other things are objects. That’s pretty astonishing actually.

Cohen: I just want to make this thing stable and strong. I feel like I’m always holding my breath.

Wilber: Yes, I know.

Cohen: Once it does become stable, I don’t know exactly what it’s going to look like, but one thing we know about the evolutionary impulse is that it always reaches higher and higher!

Wilber: Yes, exactly. Let’s say, just as a thought experiment, that it’s a thousand years from now and the cultural center of gravity is up around indigo, and then above it is violet and ultraviolet. There’s going to be some new form of self that comes into existence at violet, and if you’re a guru at that time, you’re going to be saying, “That’s the authentic self!” And you’ll be wrestling with idiots who are at turquoise and indigo, saying “Why can’t these fools see this dark matter nth-dimensional string interaction that’s going to—??” That’s what’s so great about having an understanding of Evolutionary Enlightenment—the impulse just keeps unfolding, and the God of today is the devil of tomorrow!

Cohen: It’s great to think about that—it keeps things in perspective.